tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post8635509372504038091..comments2023-11-05T05:49:22.093-05:00Comments on The Breda Fallacy: To those that would rather fight than winbredahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00216098318849287384noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-4632209178889766712011-02-21T13:48:57.445-05:002011-02-21T13:48:57.445-05:00(This is a repost of an accidentally deleted post ...(This is a repost of an accidentally deleted post from February 17.)<br /><br />Breda, your rules are pretty good. I open carry a <i>lot</i>, and I have some additional rules:<br /><br />1. Dress at least a little better than average. You're representing, right or wrong, all gun owners. Make a good impression.<br /><br />2. Wear a retention holster and stay very aware. Concealed is concealed, but when you're OCing, a gun grab (by a thug, a cop, or an idiot security guard, in ascending order of likelihood) becomes a real issue to consider.<br /><br />3. Tip well, if you're in a tipping joint.<br /><br />4. If at all possible, bring expectation-confounding companions. Alone, I'm a man with a gun. Accompanied, I'm a doting daddy to adorable elementary-school kids, and I just happen to be carrying.<br /><br />5. If you're involved in political, competitive or other gun groups, have a handful of cards or brochures in your pocket.<br /><br />6. If you want to be really sharp, carry a copy of the law or opinion that shows that your carry is legal. Some people need the reassurance.<br /><br />7. Smile. Again. A lot. It matters.<br /><br />8. If you want to wear camo, scowl a lot, be rude, unshaven, messy, cheap, or angry, please conceal. Not everyone is cut out to be a diplomat.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595960360013731640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-83909863316426604942011-02-19T20:24:30.438-05:002011-02-19T20:24:30.438-05:00You should all be supportive of these guys, draw t...You should all be supportive of these guys, draw the line in the sand now and stand toe to toe with themGlenn Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16677859688487279914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-24400507660615121042011-02-19T18:11:37.905-05:002011-02-19T18:11:37.905-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-91570220008124330952011-02-19T18:11:02.613-05:002011-02-19T18:11:02.613-05:00Breda,
if I might add a final comment:
This dis...Breda,<br /> if I might add a final comment:<br /><br />This discussion has wandered all over the map, and has lost sight of the important focus of the subject.<br /><br />Is what was done improper for the situation? Not if legal or illegal.<br /><br />Suppose a train had crashed while transporting a couple dozen big cats (lions, tigers, etc,) and the police were carrying long guns as they went about their normal affairs. In this case, if you wander into the library while slinging a long gun, the majority will view you with favor, because you fit the new normal.<br /><br /> Absent this unusual situation, you don't look normal. That is the important point. You don't look normal. You look very un-normal. Plus, you look like a threat. Humans don't like this AT ALL! You now have TWO strikes against you, and it only takes violating one of these hard-wired mental rules to establish you as a PROBLEM in the mind of observers and bystanders.<br /><br />Most of us can deplore the actions of the staff vs any gun, and think they need to be stepped on, and still find fault with the long gun carrier.<br /><br />If you don't understand this, you are working under a severe handicap. NOTE! I'm NOT saying you are retarded, stupid, or anything of the sort. I'm saying that you lack some of the hard-wired (built-in) rules that most humans come with. Not understanding this can put you at a severe disadvantage when dealing with the rest of the world.<br /><br />Alternatively, you do understand the opposition we have with the situation, but you don't care. Some humans are like that, too.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-63144271116685282572011-02-19T05:05:24.425-05:002011-02-19T05:05:24.425-05:00Okay, guys. Thank you for your involvement but tha...Okay, guys. Thank you for your involvement but that's enough now. My blog is not your forum nor a place for a your personal one-on-one. Don't make me shut down comments.bredahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00216098318849287384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-24819032028366179132011-02-19T03:06:01.289-05:002011-02-19T03:06:01.289-05:00jtaylor -
Just so you know this got started by a ...jtaylor -<br /><br />Just so you know this got started by a previous post on this blog titled "manners matter." I did not get involved in that discussion is I was involved in one at Borepatch's blog, post titled "Open Carry FAIL" which had a link to "manners matter." (Breda if you must blame some for me being here blame BP. ;-) ) <br />There's another post, on this blog, that comes after this one titled "worth a thousand words" were I made this post in reply to Tanksoldier, sorry if I didn't state my position clearly in this post comment section.<br /><br />"Tanksoldier -<br /><br />If the stated goal of the OC movement is to normalize the perseption of gun carrier as normal and non-threatening.<br />How does wondering around armed to the teeth do this?<br />Our arguement is not is it legal or should it be baned, but the wisdom carrrying things that might alarm the public.<br />Let's get the public used to seeing us carry hand guns before we up the anty to the big guns. <br /><br />Let's not knock the fence sitters off the fence into the yard of gun control by being obnoxious. <br /><br />Let's keep the horse before the cart. <br /><br />Josh<br />February 18, 2011 9:46 AM"<br />(This repost should clarify and is my answer to your question in your 1st and 3rd paragraphs.)<br /><br />Borepatch had another post linking to this one titled "Open Carry: Pistols vs. long guns."<br />To sum up I've been having this discussion with multiple person over 2 blogs and 4 post. <br /><br />Now on to the meat of your comment. <br /><br />You said - "Look... I see your opinion differs from mine. I don't think you are wrong because you disagree with my opinion. Why do I feel as if you are bothered because I don't agree with you?" <br />It's wishy wash feal good crap that annoys me. You obviously feel you are right which by default makes me wrong. I'm ok with that, but don't tell me you think I'm right cause you don't want to hurt my feelings. We can't bothe be right that's that every body gets a ribbon loser mentality crap that they're teaching in school now day. This leads me to another thing of course; I'm bothered by what you and some others are saying if I didn't that would mean I agreed with you and we wouldn't be having this discusion. <br /><br />You weren't giving me the it's ok to be me speach were you? <br />To me a friend is some I trust with my life and we barely met over the Internet, and I've been pretty friendly, well for me anyways.<br /><br />To last statement if I called fire in a crowed movie theater knowing that there was know fire cause I was joking with a friend about how much fun it would be to cause a panic, and a pregnant woman and a little old nun were trampled to death; you would defend my right to free speach? <br /><br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-24130947217996255272011-02-18T19:41:15.504-05:002011-02-18T19:41:15.504-05:00The problem with your process of normalization is ...The problem with your process of normalization is that how do people get used to guns in libraries if they never see guns- in a library or not?<br /><br />Look... I see your opinion differs from mine. I don't think you are wrong because you disagree with my opinion. Why do I feel as if you are bothered because I don't agree with you?<br /><br />If the anti-gunners get upset and think we are wrong, what makes you think their opinion will change? My mother is dead-set against anyone carrying, and I know there is nothing I can do to change her mind. However, I don't presume to tell her she is wrong-she is right for her. So, feel free to disagree with me. If you think your reasoning is going to change my mind any more than mine is changing yours, you are mistaken... I am okay with that and WANT others to be able to decide for themselves. <br /><br />You are right for you. You may not be right for me. Surely we can be friends and disagree? If not, we all need to work on that...<br /><br />About the belching or the building of the mosque near ground zero... It is like him carrying OC. He has a legal right to so carry. I try to not belch in public--if I do I am as quiet as I can be. I would not build a christian church next to a site where christians killed 1,000 Muslims, and I don't carry openly... I don't think doing so is wise :) I never said doing so is the best way to get support for our rights... My position is that I fight for someone's right even if I disagree with how that right is exercised.jtaylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18190316513734486522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-85992855262509112132011-02-18T11:25:26.264-05:002011-02-18T11:25:26.264-05:00Opps missed a word. ".... your right to free...Opps missed a word. ".... your right to freely swing your arm around 'ends' at the tip of my nose.<br /><br />Sigh, :-(<br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-91413005660042784142011-02-18T11:19:26.391-05:002011-02-18T11:19:26.391-05:00Staghounds
Well said.
JoshStaghounds<br /><br />Well said. <br /><br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-66832559229077210132011-02-18T11:13:17.139-05:002011-02-18T11:13:17.139-05:00jtaylor -
There is a standard of conduct that mu...jtaylor - <br /><br />There is a standard of conduct that must be applied to our use of the 1st Amendment. I can't just say, "you a cross dressing moma's boy that likes to wear her panties." Unless I have pictures and proof. The most famous example is the "You can't just yell fire in a crowed movie theater unless there's is a fire."<br /><br />There is a saying buy one of the Founders I forget which on that goes like this, your right to freely swing your arm around is at the tip of my nose. <br /><br />All we are doing is suggesting a standard of conduct be applied to the 2nd Amendment, open carry and the general handling of guns in public. We are not trying to make it mandatory, but just realize that their are some that are going to look at you strangely and avoid you.<br /><br />I see this as an etiquette and manors issue. <br /><br />If you go out to eat in a public, even though you might be a slob at home, eating with your hand and belching loudly is not giving a good accounting of yourself. So, if your stated goal is to win over friends and show how normal you are, how is acting with poor manors furthering you agenda?<br /><br />Just because you can and have 'right' to do something doesn't mean we should do it,<br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-50428165200219856912011-02-18T10:44:47.776-05:002011-02-18T10:44:47.776-05:00Channel Sarah Brady. Do you like, or hate, what t...Channel Sarah Brady. Do you like, or hate, what this fool did?<br /><br />You are a patron in the library when this happens, with no opinion at all on OC, never heard of it. Who in this event made you feel nervous, uncomfortable, or otherwise intruded on your otherwise peaceful day?<br /><br />Same, but not a witness- you go to the library sometimes where you live. As you imagine suddenly seeing a man with a shotgun in front of you as you look for a book, do you feel good or queasy? Do you wish this had happened at your library last time you went? Do you hope it will happen next time?<br /><br />Q. E. D.<br /><br />Normalization is a process. It means making people COMFORTABLE. The lunch counter people were intentionally only doing one thing- trying to buy a sandwich just like white folks. The idea was that the ARREST of these quiet, ordinary people would make the other patrons uncomfortable and disrupt their day. As white people, they would begin to question on whose side they were. People from non Jim Crow places would see this as something they didn't like going on in their country. They think, "If that happened in front of me, I would have spoken up." To the neutral, the black man is the good guy. <br /><br /><br /><br />In this case, the actions of the OC fool were the disruptive and scary things, the arrival of the police and the taking away of the scary man were the things that gave the witnesses good endorphins.<br /><br />If Rosa Parks had been yelling and screaming, demanding affirmative action quotas, she would not have even been a footnote..staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-1659460360485092972011-02-17T22:26:55.521-05:002011-02-17T22:26:55.521-05:00I hear your it is about winning the middle ground,...I hear your it is about winning the middle ground," but do we say people using their 1st amendment right have to have oxford shirts and must fit some social norm or do we tell society to act rational and to respect the rights people have. Now, what is right for you is to not make waves by OCing as the gent did. However, we should be fighting for his rights, our rights, rather than say we should limit our rights to not upset those that might want to limit our rights. That is just my opinion, and I respect your right to disagree and think differently. Now, why must you seem to think that exercising my right is making it difficult? Seems to me those that are being difficult are those anti-gunners or others limiting our existing rights-whether 1st, 2nd, or other Amendment-protected right. He wasn't wrong or contrary to the law... We should fight for a legal right whether the exercise of that right is wise or not... Just my 2¢, everyone's mileage may vary. That is what makes this country great imho...jtaylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18190316513734486522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-91616202620626139222011-02-17T14:50:39.769-05:002011-02-17T14:50:39.769-05:00Asome.... Sigh.
Sometimes I wonder about me.
J...Asome.... Sigh. <br /><br />Sometimes I wonder about me. <br /><br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-59941861865119193672011-02-17T14:48:10.654-05:002011-02-17T14:48:10.654-05:00Also in civil case them not following a law is eno...Also in civil case them not following a law is enough you don't have to show damages. If that's not enough them enfringing on your civil libirties I would asome constitutes damages, but I'm not sure on that one as I'm not a lawer. <br /><br />So I could be wrong so any lawyers out want to correct anything I've said feel free. <br /><br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-81396401885932904352011-02-17T14:47:11.107-05:002011-02-17T14:47:11.107-05:00Josh,
Let me know how that works out for you.Josh,<br />Let me know how that works out for you.Rich Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07376488014524723403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-64436323686750648542011-02-17T14:41:40.228-05:002011-02-17T14:41:40.228-05:00RichB -
I have enough to deal with in my own sta...RichB - <br /><br />I have enough to deal with in my own state. Plus the OC group that organized the event and the gentalmen in question must of felt like they had suficant funds for any legal bill they might have incurred. <br />My point was why waist the money on defending yourself incourt just file a law suit if it's that important to you. <br /><br />Josh <br /><br />Ps. Up side you also spend less time in jail.Josh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-62633780230894120882011-02-17T14:30:06.608-05:002011-02-17T14:30:06.608-05:00There is this misconception that the only way to c...<i>There is this misconception that the only way to challenge a policy, city ordnance or law is to be up in the face of the enforcing them. Not true.</i><br /><br />Yep. There was an illegal NCC parks ordinance here in DE that banned open carry. That ordinance was dealt with by a few e-mails, letters, & phonecalls by members of Delaware Open Carry. No "in your face" activism needed.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-53394450950814228072011-02-17T14:28:42.095-05:002011-02-17T14:28:42.095-05:00Josh,
When can MOC expect your generous contribut...Josh, <br />When can MOC expect your generous contribution to the legal fund necessary to for the lawsuit you keep promoting?<br /><br />Or are we to assume you will just take of the bills by yourself?<br /><br />Are you prepared to lose that money when they dismiss the case because you have no dog in the show because you have not yet been arrested or detained?Rich Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07376488014524723403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-14082641900247649772011-02-17T14:11:36.176-05:002011-02-17T14:11:36.176-05:00jtyalor -
It's about winning over the middle...jtyalor - <br /><br />It's about winning over the middle ground. <br /><br />If we're going to use the lefts tactics. Let's go all the way let's have some OC sit/love in's. Let's organize a OC perade where we wear assless chaps and pistols only. Lets burn our CHP's. <br />Because you know every time I see this stuff on tv it just makes me want to side with them. I know we generally arn't that obnoxious, but even a little bit is to much for me.<br />There is this misconception that the only way to challenge a policy, city ordnance or law is to be up in the face of the enforcing them. Not true.<br />The easiest thing to have done in the case of that library would of be to have a lawer seems the a letter stating that they where inviolation of the law and if they did not comply that you would file suit. You never know they could of complied problem solved.<br /><br />Why do people insist on making things more difficult than they need to be. <br /><br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-55277609246688707442011-02-17T13:11:00.149-05:002011-02-17T13:11:00.149-05:00@instinct:
Thanks for the good lunchtime reading....@instinct:<br /><br />Thanks for the good lunchtime reading.Rich Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07376488014524723403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-59434585037194961632011-02-17T12:59:15.962-05:002011-02-17T12:59:15.962-05:00My only thought is a legal one... If it IS legal ...My only thought is a legal one... If it IS legal for them to carry as they did, why is it anyone should say they shouldn't so carry? I agree you and others think it wasn't wise, but a legal right is a legal right. Instead of in-fighting, use the publicity to put your argument for legal OCing forward. Don't let the anti-gun crowd win this one...jtaylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18190316513734486522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-38573523060945771422011-02-17T11:57:16.979-05:002011-02-17T11:57:16.979-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Firestarterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342282343219030946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-5444771284298255712011-02-17T11:30:40.944-05:002011-02-17T11:30:40.944-05:00Rich, here's a history lesson for you.
http:/...Rich, here's a history lesson for you.<br /><br />http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1248instincthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891346937398300935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-59468374534860935662011-02-17T10:34:33.125-05:002011-02-17T10:34:33.125-05:00And come the hell on, comparing the effort to open...<i>And come the hell on, comparing the effort to open carry to the civil rights fight? That's offensive to me, and I'm an old white guy.</i><br /><br />Why is it "offensive?" Civil rights are civil rights and there are obvious parallels.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32278169577563552.post-2497886181612646942011-02-17T10:31:51.971-05:002011-02-17T10:31:51.971-05:00@Clint:
I don't see the difference between ch...@Clint:<br /><br />I don't see the difference between challenging a law and challenging a faulty rule in a municipal building.<br /><br />Could you please show me the law that made it illegal for black people to sit at a lunch counter in Alabama?Rich Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07376488014524723403noreply@blogger.com