Friday, December 28, 2007

just curious

tell me, can you (yes, you) carry a concealed handgun in a library in your state? You do go to the library, don't you? (asks the librarian who is too lazy to look this stuff up for herself)

I'm off to get ready...working the crappy, sure-I-have-no-life-schedule-me-for-whenever shift today. Plus, I am in a funk. Cleveland's renowned weatherman (Goddard has a blog!) has said that December is our cloudiest month of the year. We've had only a handful of partly sunnies this month and I am feeling it. I'm tempted to stick my head under the turtle's sunlamp, if she'll share. I still have some nightcrawlers in the fridge to distract/bribe her.


West, By God said...

Florida state law explicitly prohibits carrying a firearm in a number of places... mainly "places of nuisance", government facilities, schools (including colleges), athletic events, bars and airports. Libraries are not explicitly listed as off-limits government facilities. So as long as the library itself is not directly affiliated with a school or college, then in theory you are allowed to carry there. The law, as I understand it, states that as long as it is not a prohibited place and you have the "right" to be there, you may possess a firearm.

There are further rules, however, regarding businesses/buildings which prohibit firearms. Basically, a "no guns" sign carries no weight of law in my state, but it grounds for a "trespass" charge if you are carrying somewhere that prohibits firearms, and fail to leave if you are "made". Florida trespass law is pretty clear that it is trespass if you have good reason to believe that you have the right to be somewhere, but are asked to leave by someone with the authority to do so, and fail to leave. It is important to remember, however, that "armed trespass" is a much more serious crime in FL, so if you are ever asked to leave somewhere while carrying, you better get going!

I have not been to a library in Florida yet, so I don't know if they have "no gun" signs. My town is actually in the process of building a new modern library, so and the old one is closed while they finish up and make the move. I'll definitely check it out when they open the new building though.

You could always move to FL. Its always sunny here except for about 1 hour/day in the summer when it rains.

What kind of turtle do you have, btw? We have 2 red-eared sliders... figure they'll like some worms? We stick to the pellets usually.

phlegmfatale said...

Gosh, we get too much sun. I envy places that get high dosage of overcast days. *sigh*

Christina LMT said...

We have the signs on our library doors specifically prohibiting guns, however, we do have armed security guards, too!

falnfenix said...

lol, Maryland...where one may only carry a gun to a destination, and it must be unloaded...and ammunition must be kept elsewhere (i.e. gun in the truck, ammo in the car). ne'er the twain shall meet!

Anonymous said...

Virginia passed preemption a couple of years ago. That means that local authorities can not restrict carry on public property unless specifically authorized to do so by the General Assembly.

The state does not restrict carry in public libraries so the answer is Yes, we can carry in libraries...and I do so regularly, both openly and concealed.

Of course, this upsets the sheep so there is legislation proposed every year to place libraries on the list of restricted areas, but so far such proposals have met with very little support.

The bottom line is that, other than the occasional whimper and heart palpitation on the part of some frightened ninny or another, the policy has caused no problems at all and, so, there is little impetus to change it.

The Duck said...

Pretty sure you can in Indiana, but it's a no no in Ohio

Sebastian said...

Libraries are fine in PA.

Mike W. said...

In Delaware you can carry in libraries so long as they're not run by a K-12 school or college/university.

"No Guns Allowed" signs also carry no legal weight here. You can however be arrested for trespass if you are asked to leave and refuse.

The list of places that are "off-limits" for CCW in DE is relatively short. Unfortunately our permit process is still may-issue and relatively expensive.

Falnfenix - I still don't get MD's transport laws. So if you're out of state and transporting your gun into MD simply stopping for gas or at a friends place before heading to the range is a crime? It also appears as if that MD law only applies to handguns not longguns.

Robb Allen said...

I can speak from experience - In Florida (where I'm still in shorts and sweating the 80°+ weather) I have carried into libraries. If there are no gun signs, I didn't see them.

Oddly, I've yet to shoot up the children's section or "pop a cap" in someone for talking too loud. The Brady's assure me this would happen. Shootouts in the Reference section. Blood flowing in the Non-Fiction. That kind of thing.

James R. Rummel said...

I live in Ohio, a neighbor of yours who lives a bit south of where you are right now. And, of course, we aren't allowed to carry in libraries if they are government buildings. Nor are we able to carry in libraries if they are part of a school.

But there is nothing against us carrying in a privately owned library. Are there libraries that are not government funded or part of a school? I think that there are some private collections of rare books or historical material, but I don't know of any that are open to the public.

On a really not very related note, have you seen that Cleveland, Ohio is the #1 city in the nation for libraries?


Jeffrey Quick said...

Robb: good thing, eh? I'm usually the one talking too loudly in the library!

falnfenix said...

Mike - Maryland's laws are retarded...can't you tell?

yes, this has to do with handguns. when i took that "handgun safety course" (which was a bloody joke!), they explicitly said that handguns may not be carried, either open or concealed, with ammunition in a vehicle. the ammunition must be separate from the firearm and locked in something (i.e. the trunk). i never thought to mention minivans, and how they don't have trunks...

i don't know the laws regarding long guns...but i'm fairly sure the ammunition thing is the same (at least, that's what my cop neighbor has hinted to in the past...i've never thought to ask). of course, the only way you get in trouble is if a police officer pulls you over and searches your car.

Chris gave me a little insight on car searches, as well - if your glove box is locked, they can't search it during a normal traffic stop.

jojosdad said...

California has very few restrictions on CCW, on the other hand a CCW permit is virtually impossible to obtain unless you reside in one of the enlightened parts of the state.
Libraries are not off limits to CCW.

Anonymous said...

In Utah you can carry in the public library as well as the libraries on the state college campuses. The right to carry openly varies from city to city though.

Nero said...

Nope I live the people's republic of Illinois where I can't CCW. Why I dont move to MO I'll never know. Maybe because I lived in Illinois all my life?

Trebor said...

In Michigan you can carry in libraries. The exception is you can't carry in a school, so on-campus school libraries are out.

This actually went to court after one city banned carry in all their facilities including City Hall, the city library and the recreation center.

Since Michigan has a "firearms pre-emption law" that prohibits cities or other units of government from passing gun laws that are stricter then state gun laws, the city lost this fight in court.

That city still has the "No guns" signs posted, but they now have no legal force. The city just refused to take them down.

Of course, Michigan is also an "at will" employment state and any employer can ban carry at work as part of the work rules. Since I'm not a librarian though, I can carry at my local library.

Anonymous said...

I rarely visit the library anymore, so I had to look it up on their website. They don't seem to care, if you have a CCW and keep it concealed. Looking at the rest of the rules, they're more concerned about someone causing a commotion than anything else.

Oh, and no sleeping on the furniture, and don't hang around if you smell. By the way, the library staff are not babysitters, so keep your kids under control.

It all seems reasonable to me.

rightwingprof said...

I can and do (as Sebastian says, you can carry in libraries in Pennsylvania). I don't know if Penn State has a no guns policy, but I don't carry inside the Paterno Library, cause they have metal detectors at the doors. Even with no no gun policy, I wouldn't want to deal with the fracas.

Indiana University's no gun policy applies only to students and staff, but not faculty. So technically, if you're a librarian there, you can carry on campus. I suspect IU's no gun policy is illegal, from reading the state law, but I'm not an attorney.

Aegis said...

I can in Oregon