Sunday, December 14, 2008

pushy, pushy

My friend LabRat has something to say about my previous post and as usual, she's far more eloquent and intelligent than I could ever hope to be.

It's well worth your time and there's even visual aids. Go read it.


Earl said...

It was well said, but your story is better and just as clear.

the pawnbroker said...

lab rat's post was eloquent and intelligent as usual, just as you said. unfortunately, the God-given instinct of "lower" animals is missing in man, replaced with an often flawed capacity for reason and self-determination, so the comparison does not transfer neatly.

your story, as earl said, was even better; based in real experience, well-written and inspiring. my intent was not to criticize that (quite the contrary), and i apologize that feelings were hurt and it went a bit viral.

my one and only concern was to ask that you be cognizant that the following and influence that you have developed can mean that careless words and links can have an unintended and dangerous effect on some who may look up to you.

others have disavowed for you any literal intent of your words and link, and characterize them as harmless figures of never did, but your praise of lab rat's post tells me you do.

i realize that it can be hard to juxtapose a strong "i am not prey, i will not be trampled" attitude and body language with the deadly serious business of armed defense...but they are very different, and the line between them must be very clear. stand up and assert yourself, but if that does not work, retreat, retreat, retreat, until you cannot retreat any further...and then God forbid, be prepared and do not hesitate to do what you have to do.

glad you made it safely through the weekend with the there's a group that very definitely can be herded, most of them. but failing that, be prepared and have a plan to deal with whatever the circumstances may require.


Larry said...

Personal Space considerations

Anonymous said...

It is a fine line between asurtive and agressive. The learning curve can be steep. in retrospect what was learned from the expierience is what is important at this point. Although Breda was probably not in real danger this was good practice. Self defence is not always physical nor should it be. Some one said if all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail or something to that effect. I say when one quits learning one can't be taught. OK?

Anonymous said...

It all reminds me of the "gentlemen" at the gun range who presume to walk up to a woman they don't really know, and declare "they" know the best stance, gun, ammo., technique for the "little lady" to use.

Unsolicited advice usually comes back to bite ya in the ass!

Thanks Breda!


Larry said...

When first teaching my sister to shoot, we got great advice from the owner of my local range, who's not only little, but only has one hand. However, her advice to my sister was better than mine, especially when made specific to my sister. Personally, I wouldn't presume to correct someone- anyone- at the range for anything other than a safety violation, unless explicitly asked.

As far as discussions of philosophy go, I consider them a two-way street and there are no 'entirely settled' scenarios. Descriptions fail. It all depends.

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

You think you're tough for eating beans every day? There's half a million scarecrows in Denver who'd give anything for one mouthful of what you got. They've been under siege for about three months. They live on rats and sawdust bread and sometimes... on each other. At night, the pyres for the dead light up the sky. It's medieval.

Farmer Frank said...

Breda: There is another 'stare' one can use, but I don't recommend it because it scares the citizens badly and that is the emotionless, 1000 yd. stare when you are only two feet away from the person annoying you. Be completely without facial expression (I MEAN COMPLETELY without facial expression!) and look as if your eyes are completely focused well past their 'being'.

They interpret it as evidence you are 'crazy', or at the very least 'NOT Right'.

Yes, I've done it, but it wasn't on least not THAT purpose, but it will have an alarming effect upon ALL but those with their OWN 1,000 yard stare.

In which case you can start your own self-help group.

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Joe said...

You know I can't really tell the difference between pawnbroker, and the guy in the bar. Except one hasn't backed off.

Larry said...

"1000 yd. stare when you are only two feet away from the person annoying you. Be completely without facial expression (I MEAN COMPLETELY without facial expression!) and look as if your eyes are completely focused well past their 'being'.

They interpret it as evidence you are 'crazy', or at the very least 'NOT Right'."

That works for a big guy. When a woman does that, it's usually taken as a sign of passivity and acceptance- a woman who has been broken to not care about herself.

tanksoldier said...

Pawn, go give some widow $50 for her wedding ring and quit sniping at Breda. Smell something burning? It's your credibility.

Breda's story doesn't encourage or endorse anyone acting in any way OTHER than they way they SHOULD act when their personal space is invaded by a schmuck who thinks he can bully his way about.

Criminals commit crimes because they know virtually nobody will resist. Oafs cut in line because the populous has been conditioned not to oppose them. Cretins like the one in Breda's story assume that they can get away with being a jerk because 99% of the time they can.

Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you have to be a pushover.

Geoff said...

Oh what the heck, let's throw my two cents into the pile.

What works for one person may not actually work for another. In the same vein what non-verbal cues might register as "aggressive" for one may only register as "assertive" with another person.

I know Larry. He's a really good guy. He's also got a few inches on me and somewhere close to a hundred pounds. I am of a much more slender build, so unless my choice of attire bumps me a few points in the initial assessment, I tend to be dismissed from priority quicker than Larry would be. Folks will be more aware of crowding him and watching for his body language to change in response than they will be of me. It is as if they assume a level of passivity at first sight which must be compensated for before the other will take note.

I have another friend who is a very friendly looking lady who stands about five foot three. She's a former Navy Yeoman and has a flat stare that can etch metal at fifty paces. She's not a passive person. However, much like people will look at a house cat and see the crouch and rapidly lashing tail and think "cute" or "cranky" where the exact same physical cues on a lion would be seen as "danger" or "provoked", her stature, and possibly gender, seem to cause others to downplay the significance of her body language.

And in the case of someone actually looking to actually test someone's boundaries, they'll push me longer than they would Larry and they'll push my female friend longer than they would me.

As such, I really don't think the oaf at the bar would have ever considered Breda as serious if she'd gone for anything less than a posture and eye contact indicating she was done being pushed.